File 36: In this file of Workforce Therapy Files, the hosts spotlight Molley Ricketts, founder and CEO of Incipio Workforce Solutions, and explore her journey building a people-first recruiting firm. Molley shares how her early experiences shaped her belief that hiring should be intentional rather than transactional. The conversation dives into common hiring mistakes, including reactive recruiting and outdated job descriptions. They also unpack the real cost of bad hires and why culture alignment matters more than filling a seat quickly. Molley highlights the overlooked value of essential workers and the importance of recognizing their contributions beyond moments of crisis.
The group discusses leadership growth, the difference between founder and CEO roles, and how to scale a business while maintaining culture. Practical insights around networking, strategy, and long-term talent development are woven throughout. The file ultimately challenges leaders to rethink how they approach hiring, culture, and workforce strategy.
Key Themes:
- Molley Ricketts’ Origin Story: From Corporate to Entrepreneur
- Reactive Hiring vs. Strategic Talent Planning
- The Real Cost of a Bad Hire vs. an Open Position
- Essential Workers: Why Their Value Is Still Overlooked
- Scaling a Business Without Losing Culture and Leadership Identity
File Transcript:
Jamie Swaim:
Welcome back to another amazing episode of the Workforce Therapy Files. Today we are continuing a theme where we’re getting to know the hosts of Workforce Therapy Files, and today we are dedicating our time completely to the one, the only, the incredible, the author…
Molley Ricketts:
International bestseller.
Jamie Swaim:
The international bestseller. You’re not supposed to do your own intro, but dang it,
Molley Ricketts:
I didn’t want you to miss it.
Jamie Swaim:
I’m not going to ask Jim to redo it because…
Jason Heflin:
A quick plug, but international best seller for what?
Molley Ricketts:
She Knows Best.
Jamie Swaim:
Author of international bestselling book, She Knows Best, Molley Ricketts.
Molley Ricketts:
Thanks. Thanks for having me on the show.
Jamie Swaim:
Very good.
Molley Ricketts:
Thanks.
Jamie Swaim:
Molley. I know we’ll give you some questions and you prepared some things that you definitely want to talk about today, but you’re not prepared.
Jason Heflin:
We’re not going to ask you any of those questions.
Jamie Swaim:
We’re not going to ask you any of them. We’ve got a whole list.
Molley Ricketts:
I feel so unprepared now.
Jamie Swaim:
All right. If you had to teach a master class tomorrow about something that has nothing to do with your business or your job, what would it be on?
Molley Ricketts:
Boating.
Jamie Swaim:
Boating.
Jason Heflin:
That’s Boating with a B, not voting with a V.
Molley Ricketts:
Oh no. You don’t want me to teach that class!
Jamie Swaim:
How’d you get into boating?
Molley Ricketts:
Grew up around it.
Jamie Swaim:
Yeah.
Molley Ricketts:
I was driving a boat before I was driving a car.
Jamie Swaim:
So now we’ll also call you Captain Molley Ricketts.
Jason Heflin:
She’s been a captain for us lately, like getting some of this content ready and stuff.
Jamie Swaim:
Yeah. I don’t know if you guys know this, but our podcast wouldn’t happen if it wasn’t for Molley Ricketts.
Molley Ricketts:
Oh, stop.
Jamie Swaim:
She gets us together. She tells us what we’re going to talk about. She gets us guests. She found Jim. Yeah. Your face should be bigger on our sticker.
Molley Ricketts:
I like that.
Jamie Swaim:
But you’re already in the middle, so I guess there’s that. Okay.
Molley Ricketts:
The Red glasses.
Jamie Swaim:
So let’s just like every hero or villain in a story.
Molley Ricketts:
Yeah.
Molley Ricketts’ Origin Story: From Corporate to Entrepreneur
Jamie Swaim:
They all have a good origin story. Let’s talk about yours.
Molley Ricketts:
Okay.
Jamie Swaim:
What problem in the workforce space frustrated you so much that you were like, nobody else is doing this, so I’m going to build a company and I’m going to be the one to do it?
Molley Ricketts:
It stemmed from working with organizations that continue to look at recruiting as a transaction and checking a box to fill a seat. The opportunities that come with an organization that are intentional about the people that they’re putting in those seats and that are intentional about the knowledge, skills, and abilities that they’re bringing into the company. When you really think about it and make that decision based on growth and succession, instead of checking-the-box, you change the game. And for so long, the companies that I was working with, that’s all they wanted to do.
Jamie Swaim:
Yeah. I got you.
Molley Ricketts:
Yeah.
Jamie Swaim:
Your company’s name is Incipio. We didn’t mention that in the intro.
Jason Heflin:
Incipio Works.
Jamie Swaim:
Incipio Workforce Solutions. Yep. So was Incipio the first company you started?
Molley Ricketts:
It was not.
Jamie Swaim:
What? There’s another story here. I did not know this.
Molley Ricketts:
So I worked with a corporate organization for almost 12 years and learned a lot. It was a great experience. It was also one of those great golden handcuff companies where you’ve got the great pay, great benefits, great PTO.
Jamie Swaim:
Did you have a pension?
Molley Ricketts:
Yeah.
Jamie Swaim:
What?
Molley Ricketts:
Can you believe it?
Jamie Swaim:
No.
Molley Ricketts:
Yeah. So there were other plans for me. I was part of the second wave of layoffs that banking institution had, and I thought, you know what? I can do this. I can do this on my own. But I had two small kids and didn’t think that I could lean into myself enough to financially support the family. My husband was working, he had a stable job, still does, and it was all great, but taking that leap of faith on myself was a little too scary. So I went out and I said, okay, if anybody was going to hire me to solve their recruiting problems, and all I have on my resume is 12 years of a corporate job, they’re going to look at me and think, no.
Jamie Swaim:
That’s not going to work over here in my widget-making.
Molley Ricketts:
So, I went to work for a small company here in Louisville. Architects and engineers, Luckett and Farley. I’m a history nerd. So they were the official architects of the Twin Spires at Churchill Downs from 18, whatever that year was, sorry, I don’t remember. So I thought, how cool would that be? And learned a lot from there.
And then I was tapped to work a contract position with GE through YO Corporation out of northern, the New England area, and learned a lot there, especially working as a third party for a corporate company like GE. Learned a lot. And through that, a lot of the managers and leaders that I had worked with in the past at Citigroup said, Hey, the person that I’m working with now, I don’t like them recruiting for me. Can you help me? So my first company started itself basically, because people that I had worked with in the past reached out and I thought, I can do this. I can work full-time job and come home and work again. Sorry, Chad. And that’s what I did. So my first company was Starting Line Staffing Consultants.
Jamie Swaim:
Starting line?
Molley Ricketts:
Starting line.
Jamie Swaim:
Because you love the track.
Molley Ricketts:
Yes.
Jamie Swaim:
Yes. That’s a great name for your company.
Molley Ricketts:
Yeah. And it was a starting line for new employees, for new companies. Right?
Jamie Swaim:
For sure.
Molley Ricketts:
So I did that. So I worked full-time as a contractor through YO at GE, and I had my own business on the side, and the business started to grow and I had to make a decision. I was like, I don’t have that real third-party experience. So, I went to work for a temporary agency and continued to affirm that that’s not the business that I wanted. Through that education and learning really took my Starting Line business and pulled it into that temporary agency and learned a lot after two and a half years and discovered that wasn’t a good fit for me and decided to leave there and took on the adventure of giving myself a few months of a break to get my stuff together. Did you like that? I said stuff I didn’t.
Jason Heflin:
Very well done. Yeah.
Molley Ricketts:
Thank you. Thank you.
Jamie Swaim:
Such growth, really.
Molley Ricketts:
Right, right. So I took a few months and really got a plan together. And Jason, to your point on a previous episode of really understanding what it was at the minimum expectations I had to set for myself, that was hard because I’d had so much responsibility in leadership opportunities in the previous positions, and I missed that, because now I’m the only one. And when I started Incipio and the frustration that I had seen with other organizations that I’d been a part of that we were working with, I just saw that real lack of focus and the transactional filling of seats that companies were used to, and there’s got to be more than this.
The satisfaction that I felt early on in my career, why can’t other people feel that? And they should. Why has it become acceptable that they don’t have to? So Starting Line was then dissolved, worked for the third party, and Incipio was born, which is Latin for new beginnings.
Jamie Swaim:
Look at all this intentionality.
Jason Heflin:
I know.
Jamie Swaim:
I know.
Jason Heflin:
I just start on a whim and she’s over here thinking about it.
Jamie Swaim:
I love it. So if you were to think about the thing that you have changed your mind on in the past 10 years as it relates to talent, what’s the thing that you believed 10 years ago that you no longer believe?
Molley Ricketts:
Everything’s on a resume.
Jamie Swaim:
Oh yeah.
Molley Ricketts:
Maybe it used to be that way.
Jamie Swaim:
No, I think it was probably wrong then too.
Molley Ricketts:
You think?
Jamie Swaim:
Well, I think it’s because you have to decide what you are hiring for.
Molley Ricketts:
Yeah.
Jamie Swaim:
Are you hiring a resume writer? And if your job is not to be a resume writer, then it’s probably not going to be a perfect resume.
Molley Ricketts:
Fair.
Jamie Swaim:
That’s my take on it. Yeah.
Jason Heflin:
Alright. I’m going to ask some questions now.
Jamie Swaim:
That’s good. I’m going to shut up now.
Jason Heflin:
Or don’t. Please don’t.
Jamie Swaim:
Okay, good
Reactive Hiring vs. Strategic Talent Planning
Jason Heflin:
What are employers still getting wrong about hiring all this time?
Molley Ricketts:
Just one thing?
Jason Heflin:
Yeah.
Molley Ricketts:
I believe that employers are still getting wrong just in hiring and recruiting, that they’re reactive. That because a person leaves or a position goes unfilled, that that position has to be filled. It’s this job, it’s no other job. And instead of taking a step back and really evaluating the landscape and understanding what position is missing, they’re just reactive hiring. And this crazy thing happens when you really look at the job descriptions that you’re hiring against when you’re frustrated because the talent that’s walking in the door that you want to hire to isn’t the person that you want to fill the job. And the amount of times that I will ask a leader, well, did you read the job description?
Jason Heflin:
Yeah.
Molley Ricketts:
Well, recently? Yeah, before you posted it. Well, no, because the job that I need to fill. For the person that was here two years ago? You don’t think that job has evolved at all, even in the smallest skillset?
Jason Heflin:
Oh yeah.
Molley Ricketts:
Oh, well, I guess.
Jamie Swaim:
You change systems.
Molley Ricketts:
You’re not even on the same tech stack.
Jamie Swaim:
You all don’t even produce that anymore.
Jason Heflin:
We’re still recruiting for it. You had new responsibilities to that role.
Molley Ricketts:
Yeah. Well, I wonder why I wasn’t getting the talent I was still looking for. It’s like stop reactive hiring.
Jason Heflin:
Yeah. And rewrite that job description, please. Sounds like. Well, we’re leaders confusing activity and with strategy that seems very common and we all do it, but the activity isn’t always strategy. Where do they get that message up?
Molley Ricketts:
Post and pray.
Jason Heflin:
I say that all the time.
Molley Ricketts:
The post and pray mentality. I know that you guys know what that is, but for those listeners that may not, it’s when you post a job and you pray that candidates come into play, especially in today’s day and age. Let’s even go back to rewriting a job description that’s relevant to the position that you want to fill.
But thinking that people are just going to apply to a job that you’ve posted. If you don’t have a brand that’s nationally recognized, that’s probably not going to happen. And even if you do have a brand that’s nationally recognized, the talent that you’re wanting, they’re not applying to jobs. They’re working. Not saying that the demographic of human that isn’t working right now they’re not quality talent. I’m not saying that. Please don’t confuse the note of, you have to be intentional about the position that you want to fill.
Jamie Swaim:
Agreed.
The Real Cost of a Bad Hire vs. an Open Position
Jason Heflin:
Yeah. I think networking too. Networking has gone out the window. It’s like, well, you may know someone, you may be working with someone at another institution that could be a good fit. Let’s talk about that. What’s the real cost of a bad hire that most executives…
Jamie Swaim:
Oh no. Is she going to tell us about soft dollars?
Molley Ricketts: Here we go. I asked someone recently, I said, so do you think that having a position go unfilled is more costly than that of a bad hire? And they said, absolutely. I said, really? Tell me more. Well, because you’ve got the position. It’s unfilled. They’re not, no one’s doing the job. I said, so you’re telling me that that costs you more as an organization than filling the position with someone who is not a good fit? And everything that you have to go through in that experience to then get rid of them costs less than having the position vancant?
Jason Heflin:
And the cultural repercussions, because others have to fill that role for that. Not just fill an empty seat, but come back behind someone and clean things up and try to educate and try to train while doing the job and all those things.
Molley Ricketts:
And as a leader, if you’re acknowledging that that person isn’t the right fit, everyone that’s around that person that knows that you know that they’re not the right fit, they’re like, well hell, if they’re going to put up with this person, then why am I busting my butt to make it happen?
Jamie Swaim:
Especially if that hire was in a spot that is at a higher-level than that person that is doing the work.
Molley Ricketts:
Tight spot.
Jamie Swaim:
Really tight. Yeah.
Essential Workers: Why Their Value Is Still Overlooked
Jason Heflin:
Wow. Alright. I got a question about essential workers. A lot about essential workers.
Molley Ricketts:
Yes, they’re my jam.
Jason Heflin:
Yes, they’re your jam. What’s happening with essential workers that the media isn’t talking about that people should be talking about?
Molley Ricketts:
So does everybody remember what happened back in 2020?
Jamie Swaim:
With painful clarity.
Molley Ricketts:
Do you remember the people that, I believe the federal government issued a thing that people were supposed to print out to put on their dashboards if they were an essential worker so that they could be on the road so that they could be parked in a parking lot so that they could be actually going to work? Do you guys remember that?
Jamie Swaim:
I don’t know if it was federal, but yes, I remember the parking passes. Yeah. I remember having to make sure that people across straight, the state lines especially had something explaining why they had to cross the state lines and stuff like that.
Jason Heflin:
Yeah. There were privileges around it.
Jamie Swaim:
Privilege.
Molley Ricketts:
Essential workers were privileged, in that category.
Jason Heflin:
Valued.
Molley Ricketts:
I mean, revered. These are the people going to work every day, making it happen. Lifting them up!
Jason Heflin:
Utility workers, nurses, yeah.
Molley Ricketts:
Manufacturing. I mean, it’s crazy, right?
Jamie Swaim:
Yeah absolutely.
Molley Ricketts:
And then what?
Jamie Swaim:
The world opened back up.
Jason Heflin:
Back to reality.
Molley Ricketts:
Yeah. So they weren’t special anymore. Do you guys know that over 70% of the nation’s workers is an essential worker?
Jamie Swaim:
70%?
Molley Ricketts:
70%?
Jamie Swaim:
I did not know that.
Molley Ricketts:
70%.
Jamie Swaim:
That number surprises me for some reason, and I don’t know why.
Molley Ricketts:
It did me too.
Jamie Swaim:
I guess when you think about all the things that prop up a community, essential workers are a large part of that.
Molley Ricketts:
So the ones that are actually doing the thing, doing the work.
Jamie Swaim:
Yeah.
Molley Ricketts:
It’s so disheartening that individuals in that category of worker are no longer lifted up the way that they were. I really thought that that was going to help make a change and people would admire and look at those committed individuals in manufacturing, in long-term care, in the hospital environment
Jamie Swaim:
And logistics,
Molley Ricketts:
All of that. And it just went away.
Jamie Swaim:
And you feel like the media is not talking about that enough. How would you expect, if we were to keep the lessons of 2020, how would you expect to see those things show up now, if we learned from it and did something different?
Molley Ricketts:
I think acknowledging the power of their work, the influence of their work, instead of, it feels less than. If you have a blue collar job, if you have an entry-level to mid-level manager position in your community, in your home, it almost feels like they belittled. That their job isn’t a value because I’m the vice president of whatever, so I’m greater than, and that hurts my heart.
Jason Heflin:
So if I get pulled over by a police officer and I say, look, I’m a podcaster. I really got to get where I’m going. Oh sir, please. Yeah, go right on. Yeah. Yeah.
Jamie Swaim:
Sad note. I got pulled over recently in the great state of Indiana, and I would just like to thank the nice trooper for being the nicest person that’s ever pulled me over. He was really kind – little side note.
Molley Ricketts:
Did he give you a ticket?
Jamie Swaim:
100%. He absolutely gave me a ticket.
Jason Heflin:
Do you listen to the Workforce Therapy Files?
Jamie Swaim:
Do you know who I am? Is what I said. That didn’t get me any clout. So yeah, no, he was like, did you know that you were speeding? And I said, oh, I just got off the interstate, so I guess I’m still an interstate mind. And he goes, you are going fast for the interstate. So I had to slow it down.
Molley Ricketts:
But just to wrap the essential worker category up, loyalty isn’t something that is assumed it’s earned. And in that category of worker, it’s earned every day.
Jamie Swaim:
And obviously we need those or they wouldn’t have been deemed essential. So how we treat those individuals in our community matters.
Molley Ricketts:
Hundred percent.
Jamie Swaim:
Yeah. I’m picking a bunch, putting down.
Molley Ricketts:
Thanks.
Scaling a Business Without Losing Culture and Leadership Identity
Jamie Swaim:
Absolutely. Okay. So Molley, you’re going to switch gears a smidge. In your career, and especially with Incipio, you have scaled a business, your second business, and you’ve done that. And we spent so much time talking about culture and it’s importance. So I want to ask you some questions specific to what it means to scale a business without losing sight of culture. What do you think intentional growth has looked like in your business?
Molley Ricketts:
Understanding that the next thing is going to happen, whether or not you plan for it. So having the ability to ask, so what are you seeing? What’s happening? And not being afraid to listen to that response and hear it, because you want to do the next thing that you think is best. Learning through those mistakes and not having people around you to truth-tell with you, that’s huge. It can make or break your business.
Jamie Swaim:
Absolutely. I think that that is one of the biggest things that I’ve learned from you. I feel like you do a nice job of building community around you with people who are subject matter experts in a lot of different areas. And you can tell how you lean into that advice and that connection and make some adjustments to how you’re doing things.
Molley Ricketts:
Yes.
Jamie Swaim:
It’s been really cool to watch that.
Molley Ricketts:
Thanks.
Jamie Swaim:
And as somebody who you got to experience at the very beginning of my journey, I just want you to know that I carry that with me. It’s good to know sometimes when you leave a mark.
Molley Ricketts:
Yeah.
Jamie Swaim:
How do you decide which clients are aligned to your culture versus just being helpful for revenue? Gosh, firing a client, that’s the hardest thing, right?
Molley Ricketts:
Oh, it, it’s not fun at all. And I think that over the last 10 years with Incipio, now being in a place where you can really align with organizations and grow together, we have several clients that they’re going into their, they too are going to their 11th year in partnership with Incipio, which is really cool to say that we have clients that we started with that we’re still with today. And the evolution of those organizations, as Incipio has evolved, and those fellow CEOs or key decision makers in a company that acknowledge that growth with you, that’s huge.
And now in a position of clearly defining the culture and environment of Incipio and being able to look at another organization, even when you’re in that first discovery meeting and say, they’re not ready for us. They’re not ready for Incipio, with confidence instead of fear, that’s been great.
Jason Heflin:
Not everybody’s right to ready to take action.
Molley Ricketts:
No.
Jason Heflin:
We’ve been on the theme of checking boxes. Some people are just in the business of checking a box.
Molley Ricketts:
And that’s fine, but that’s not who Incipio is.
Jamie Swaim:
Right? So when people start a business, you see them use any number of job titles, by the way, on their socials, how they market themselves. You call yourself CEO, correct?
Molley Ricketts:
That’s right.
Jamie Swaim:
Right. So what do you consider the primary difference between founder and CEO and what adjustments have you needed to make?
Molley Ricketts:
Wow. Thanks for that.
Jason Heflin:
That’s really good.
Jamie Swaim:
Thank you.
Jason Heflin:
Can I say something really quick while you’re thinking about it? Yeah. I’m kind of shifting personally from CEO to founder, so I’m taking that. So I’m really interested in what you have to say because I’m, and titles are whatever.
Molley Ricketts:
Yeah, they’re really for everybody else.
Jason Heflin:
For everybody else, it’s clout. It’s, he is trying to get in the door and say, look, I’m an important person you should be talking to. But yeah, Mrs. CEO tell us about it.
Molley Ricketts:
I think CEO to me means actively engaged and pursuing excellence. And founder to me means more of taking a backseat and letting everyone else do the day-to-day. Not in a bad way. Just the active engagement of a founder is completely different to me than a CEO. Now, I’ve also seen titles of entrepreneurs that start a business, and they’ve been in it for a while, that they have the Founder/CEO/President. What was that horrible boss’s movie, the guy that took on four different titles from the character Jason Bateman played?
Jason Heflin:
Can I say that’s like a huge pet peeve of mine. When a leader, when a top-level leader, we know you do a lot of jobs. We know you wear a lot of hats. Don’t put seven titles on there. I get it. You do a lot of stuff. You’re frustrated, but just pick one.
Molley Ricketts:
You don’t need a 5×7 business card size to take all of your titles.
Jason Heflin:
I want to know when I’ve ended the body of the email and I’ve started the signature, and usually it’s like the signature is longer than the body. Don’t do that people.
Molley Ricketts:
Yeah. No. And I often think too, that the title is really, of CEO, is really more used for the outward for the people that we’re working with as opposed to internal. At least I hope that that’s what my partners, my internal partners think, because we have individuals within Incipio that we work with that are smarter than me, in ways that I know that I also have gifts that they don’t. And being able to balance that out and honor each other and lift each other up to do that. That’s what a CEO is to me. Someone that can discern the difference between, Jamie, what you’re great at, Jason, what you’re great at, and honoring what I’m great at, that you guys are not, and how we can pull that up together. The game has changed.
Jason Heflin:
Oh yeah.
Molley Ricketts:
But it takes a lot for somebody to get that, in my opinion.
Jamie Swaim:
Agreed. Alright, Molley, as always, we learned a lot from you today. Remind people how they can get in touch with Incipio.
Molley Ricketts:
Incipioworks.com. Like Jason said, that’s a shorter version.
Jason Heflin:
This is a great tagline. Because you do work. You work hard.
Molley Ricketts:
Yeah, that’s right. Or let’s see. Oh no. Yeah, LinkedIn, Molley Ricketts. That’s with an “ey”.
Jamie Swaim:
Love that. And if they wanted to get a copy of, what was the name of that book again?
Molley Ricketts:
She knows Best.
Jamie Swaim:
She knows Best. Where would they go to get that? Anywhere they get books?
Molley Ricketts:
Amazon. Yeah. Bargain Price of $14.95.
Jamie Swaim:
How much would it cost to get your signature and set book?
Molley Ricketts:
Depends on how well I know you, like you, love you.
Jamie Swaim:
Okay. Well, I meant to bring mine today to see if I can negotiate that, but…
Molley Ricketts:
I might give it to you.
Jamie Swaim:
Oh, thanks. Well, I bought a copy because that’s what friends do.
Molley Ricketts:
Thank you.
Jason Heflin:
Well, thank you for all your insights. I respect you a lot. I think a lot about you and what you’ve done through your career, and we all have our own unique path. But you’ve just done a great job getting to where you are and I can’t wait to see what’s next. Alright, James. Close that file.
That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you.
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Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals?
We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions:
- Jamie Swaim, SPHR – www.ParcelKnows.com
- Molley Ricketts – www.IncipioWorks.com
- Jason Heflin – www.CrowdSouth.com
We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening!